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Цей текст є спробою донести інформацію до користувачів, а не питанням — тим не менш ви можете висловлювати ваші думки, пропозиції, ідеї у коментарях/відповідях.

Ставити запитання і писати відповіді можна однією з двох мов: українська й англійська (звісно, зміст питання/відповіді має стосуватися української мови).

Трішки відрізняється політики щодо «ме́ти» (секції для технічних/організаційних обговорень — Ukrainian Language meta):

  • Рекомендується запитання/відповіді в ме́ті писати чи дублювати (відразу чи через деякий час) англійською. Особливо це стосується запитів щодо підтримки ззовні (наприклад, питань з тегами «support», «bug», «feature-request»). Особливо це стосується періоду, коли в нас немає внутрішніх модераторів. Також від себе хочу додати, що в нас є учасники спільноти, що не володіють українською, але активно нам допомагають (недубльовані обговорення вони можуть не зрозуміти).
  • Тим не менш, це не обов'язково[підтв.].

This text is a try to convey information to users, not a question — still you are allowed to express your thoughts, propositions, ideas within comments/answers.

It's allowed to ask questions and write answers in one of two languages: Ukrainian and English (of course, content of question/answer has to relate to the Ukrainian language).

The policies about “meta” (a section for technical/organizational discussions — Ukrainian Language meta) are a bit different:

  • It's recommended to write or dub (immediately or in some time) questions/answers within the meta in(to) English. Especially it relates to requests for support from outside (for example, questions with “support”, “bug”, “feature-request”). Especially it relates to a period we don't have internal moderators. Also I want to add from myself, that we have community members that don't know Ukrainian, but actively help us (they may be unable to participate in non-dubbed discussions).
  • Never-the-less, it isn't obligatory[підтв.].
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    Why does russian not allowed? – br3t Feb 7 '17 at 21:00
  • @br3t the Meta is for technical management and moderation of the site. – bytebuster Feb 7 '17 at 21:20
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    @br3t, Stack Exchange is quite conservative about allowing non-English text within questions and answers. Some time ago they allowed creating non-English sites, now they don't; and a site (of any language) doesn't allow Q&A in any language except the site's language. Our language formally is English, but as a language-learning site we have additional permission to use target language (i.e. Ukrainian) — nothing more. Initially I wanted to allow any language within Q&A (not only Russian, but Belarusian, Polish, etc) — but it isn't allowed by Stack Exchange rules now. – Sasha Feb 7 '17 at 21:37
  • I think whether Russian is allowed or not should be a question in its own right. – Andrew Grimm Feb 9 '17 at 11:12
  • @AndrewGrimm, well, there are two pitfalls: (1) I'm not sure we will be allowed to use more than 2 languages by higher SE policies at all (I suppose we won't). (2) I suppose the a debate for allowing/forbidding Russian would be hard and long (because some of native Ukrainian speakers really hate Russian: either due to long-ago history, or due to current politics, or due to smth else) and may take too much time of participants (especially during private beta). So, I proposed to Alex ask on general meta [to be continued…] – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 17:05
  • […continuation] about theoretical possibility of allowance to use 3rd language at all, before starting debates (whether majority of us wants it) within our meta. (However, maybe I was wrong, I don't know.) – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 17:08
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I'll share some experience from French Language. I don't speak Ukrainian, feel free to translate this post.

French Language was started mostly by French speakers and most regulars are more interested in questions by natives than in questions by learners. However, a majority of questions are currently in English. We accept questions in both languages, and accept answers in both languages. We encourage learners to try to write their question in French, but it is not compulsory. We encourage answerers to answer in the same language as the question, but only if they're familiar enough with the language; some answerers can decipher a question in English but not really write an answer in English, and it's fine if they answer in English.

French Meta is more bilingual than the main site: we translate the most important posts. Note that Ukrainian is allowed on meta (meta.ukrainian — on meta.french, French is allowed). This used to be officially forbidden, but French Meta has always allowed French. Nowadays the site language is allowed on meta. An English translation is encouraged, but it is only compulsory on posts that Stack Exchange staff must understand (e.g. bug reports). Meta should allow posts in either language, and someone should translate if necessary.

Whether Russian is allowed here is a topic for the Ukrainian SE community to decide. There is no real precedent of having a site with a lot of learners who share a language other than English. On French, this was debated and the conclusion is that it's up to the asker to make themselves understood. But apart from one test question in the early beta, the case of a question that is neither in French nor in English never came up on French.SE... For Ukrainian.SE, it might be best to see how many people prefer asking (and getting answers?) in Russian over the course of the next few months.

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  • Hmmm... I didn't know that meta is now allowed in target language. I oriented on this: "we have to insist that any posts on the META site must be in English (or translated quickly after posted)" (although it was for non-English sites and too old, 2011). I'll update my text. – Sasha Feb 8 '17 at 1:07
  • @Sasha The change in policy is quite recent and was not widely announced (it started out as a comment on some site meta, I think meta.esperanto…). But even before that, on French, we “resisted” and officially said meta posts in French were ok. Most posts on French Language Meta are in English anyway. – Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' Feb 8 '17 at 1:14
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I would like to suggest that Russian be allowed (albeit deprecated) on the Ukrainian.SE. As suggested by Sasha, I was planning to post the following on the main Meta.SE. If anyone would like to edit it to make it sound more well-presented, you are welcome.

I believe Ukrainian language is in a unique position. Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet Union, and everyone in Ukraine learned Russian. Ukrainian was considered the language of the village people. A lot of people living in Ukraine and learning Ukrainian can only speak Russian. There is also a large group of people who actually speak a mix of Ukrainian and Russian when they try to speak Ukrainian. For example, they replace the soft sounds with hard sounds, "e" with "i", and substitute the few words which they do know.

I am among those in that position; however, I am fortunate enough that I also know English, and can ask my questions in it. My parents don't-- they only speak Russian well. Anyone who took German as a second language is also in that position. And most people my parents' age who lived in cities only had Ukrainian as a "second language"-- and consequently don't know it well enough to ask questions in it. This is quite a large fraction of the Ukrainian people.

For people in such circumstances, I suggest allowing asking questions in Russian. I don't mind this being a deprecated language, but it's better than to simply throw such questions out. When the official StackExchange policy was formulated, no other languages were in the same circumstance-- and hence the policy.

If the main Meta.SE decides to allow using Russian as a deprecated language, then we can vote on whether to allow it on these boards, and when [you can see an example disagreement in comments below]. We can also consider what being a deprecated language would entail. For example, the answers could be encouraged to be given in Ukrainian. Since Ukrainian is similar to Russian, most people my parents' age can understand answers given in Ukrainian-- just not speak it well themselves. Or, the asker could tag it with "needs to be translated to Ukrainian".

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  • You have two solutions: – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:01
  • 1. You can try to arise this question in general meta. Because I believe that higher SE policies don't allow third language (but I may be wrong). – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:03
  • That is precisely what I was planning to do, if the people on Ukrainian.SE supported it. – Alex Feb 9 '17 at 2:05
  • Actually, my though was that you should first ask on general meta whether it's theoretically possible — and only in case of positive answer we'll start debates (I suppose there'll be really great debates because some of native Ukrainian speakers really hate Russian: either due to long-ago history, or due to current politics, or due to smth else). But, of course, you can do it reverse order: first start a separate discussion here (on meta.ukr) and only then in case of positive solution here ask at general meta. – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:09
  • I just don't like a reverse order, because I don't want a lot of time to be lost in debates about something even theoretically impossible. (So, my idea is: (I) ask on general meta about probability of theoretical possibility [0% or 100% or 50% or what] for the case if we'll decide positively in future here; (II) then in case of non 0%-answer start debates here; (III) then in case of positive decision here ask about final verdict on general meta.) – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:13
  • As I've said you have two solutions. And the second is… – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:15
  • OK, good point. So I think I can post on Meta.SE first-- as soon as I get a person or two who can help me improve what I say, so that it is well-presented on the Meta. I will now update my question to reflect this goal. – Alex Feb 9 '17 at 2:21
  • 2. Wait for three month; or at least for three weeks; not to take into debates time of people who're trying to struggle us through private beta. Start discussion only then. – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:22
  • You can't up-vote your own questions. – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:23
  • I think I will go ahead and get the question ready to be presented on the Meta; by the time we get a decision, the three weeks can well pass. You can't up-vote your own questions. What was that about? – Alex Feb 9 '17 at 2:25
  • BTW, just a personal question: Do you really nead to ask Russian?. I mean: can't you ask in Ukrainian (even with mistakes) — or in surzhyk? Because it's hard for me to imagine such situation (and such environment / such part of Ukraine where such people — unable to speak Ukrainian at all — grow). – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:25
  • I believe this is a question that will come up once (and if) the Meta.SE approves our request. From my point of view, Ukrainian needs to be kept pure-- otherwise we will have a trend progressively Russifying these forums. So if you don't know how to ask in pure Ukrainian-- ask in what you know. But again, that is probably better handled in its own thread if we get the approval. – Alex Feb 9 '17 at 2:28
  • «"You can't up-vote your own questions." What was that about?» — Sorry, I'm just too tired, I accidentally misread «I will now update my question to reflect …» as «I will now upvote my question …». – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:29
  • «So if you don't know how to ask in pure Ukrainian-- ask in what you know [Russian].» Hmmm… No, per my opinion, no. Per my opinion it's better to ask in broken U. than in R. And my original intent was "allow any language, but endeavor to write in U., writing in others languages only if you feel you won't be understood" (not just in case you just can't speak 100%-correct). And I'm too open-minded to forbid anything to anyone — but my personal opinion is that it's better to write in U. partially correct, than in R. or other language. – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 2:37
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    And there is two other problems with your logic, IMHO: (1) If someone thinks his U is good (even though it isn't), he wouldn't use R or E here. Therefore such idea (not to use U if feeling it isn't 100%-ok) won't keep us from bad U. People spending time to edit badly-worded questions may, but this idea — no. (2) A fact that someone speaks U badly doesn't necessarily mean that the one speaks R. He may speak R just as badly as U, or don't know R at all. So, IMHO, the idea "not to use U if feeling it isn't 100%-ok" is harmful. Still, I won't prevent you from searching possibilities to allow R. – Sasha Feb 9 '17 at 9:31

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